Australian Ethernet Cabling (lunacy). Help get back the DDE

[Noel]

Are you making your own ethernet patch cables?

Does any part of that LAN (directly OR indirectly) connect somehow to the Internet or a device with a modem that is connected or can be connected to any part of the telecommunications network ?

Do you know this is illegal, but used to be legal!


Cabling in any premises that is used, installed ready for use or intended for use on the customer side of the boundary of a telecommunications network is defined in Section 20 of the Telecommunications Act 1997 as "Customer Cabling".

Installing Customer Cabling that connects or is intended to connect to a carriers telecommunications network is defined in section 418 of the Telecommunications Act 1997 as "Cabling Work".

Anyone who performs cabling work are defined as a cabling provider and are subject to Cabling Provider Rules as defined in section 421 of the telecommunications Act 1997.

The Cabling Provider Rules (CPR's) require anyone performing cabling work to be registered.

Making patch leads (cords) from cable and associated cabling product is performing cabling work. A completed patch cord is subject to section 5.6.13 of AS/ACIF S008: 2006 requirements for Customer Cabling Products and therefore requires testing to prove compliance and the cord then labelled with the A-tick as any manufacturer of a cord must do.

Regardless of the extent of cabling work done or how it connects to a carriers network, the Act and subordinate legislation require the cabling provider to be registered and comply with their registration conditions.]


Rather silly hey! I mean it's not like we are playing with phone cables, but to make a lousy cat5 patch lead is a no-no unless you only use it on a private LAN with no net/telecommunications devices accessible in any way shape or form.


This all used to be legal until 2000, until they introduced the Cabling Providor Rules.
Updated: The previous exemption was called the DDE
The requirement for any person who performs cabling work to be licensed/registered has existed since the start of deregulation of telecommunications in 1989/90. The only essential difference is that the original Digital Data Exemption (DDE) introduced under the 1989 and 1991 Acts which exempted Security, Fire and Data cabling providers from needing to be licensed was removed with the introduction of Cabling Provider Rules in 2000.
/end update


We all know everyone flouts this law, are you telling me seriously every SysAdmin and Network Engineer in this country is licenced under Cabling Providor Rules? Pigs ass they are! .....What about all the folk who do this at home and for their employers now? Most people are not even aware its an offence.

If we could do this legally for years before, why not now?
This exemption was removed at the push of industry, after all, why should you or I spend $10 and do it ourselves when we can get a licenced cabler in who will charge us $80-$200 to do maybe near as good a job as we would, right ?

Making an ethernet patch lead is not rocket science!
Drilling a hole in two rooms, running cat5 cable through,and terminating them into a skirting sockets on either end is not rocket science. It's not like everyone is going to do it, only those that know how to, just like before!


Now I don't consider the exemption should apply to ANYONE who does cable installations for a living, this protects the paying customers and to hopefully reassure them the quality is up to some sort of spec (this is debatable from some of the cabling works I've seen done by these so called licenced cablers - it's scary!), but this is for someone who does it in a hobbyist situation at their own home, or for their employer (like in the case of a Sys/Network Admin, IT support staff etc) in the course of normal job... come on people... sanity needs to return.

Sanity? why am I talking about sanity? Well, imagine a person who makes an ethernet cable for two home PC's to talk to each other, lets say two residents who are gamers, so they can play against each other super fast desktops, alighty thats cool, its legal.. But how do these guys access the net? ok, they have less powerful laptops and they use the wireless, thats cool, but wait, the broadband modem has an ethernet port, the ACMA could claim one or both normally access the Internet from one or both of those PC's, with your home-made cable, and prosecute you, and the courts being as they are would likely believe them, so it's a very dangerous contradiction, one hand its legal to cable for one purpose, but not the other.

If we can't get the full DDE back, then what I feel a balanced out exemption under The Act would be for any person wiring data cables (inclusive of all cable installation, connections, plugs, sockets, leads) for home, or for an employer, providing:
* cables are not made "for sale" to a third party
* the person does not perform any cabling services for a fee, except for an employee in the execution of their normal day to day duties (for example, System Administrator, Network Administrator, in-house IT Support staff etc...) and,
* an employee performing such tasks receives no additional specific payments for doing so
* the person is not employed by a Cable Installation company to perform any cable related work


So... If you, like I and many others, are sick of this pointless law, write to your local federal member, and most importantly, write to the minister (Hon S.Conroy) asking for the data exemptions back, or at a minimum like above to be re-instated at the earliest possible time

If you want to personalise them and change it in your letter/email, please be realistic, if you do cabling for a living then you should not be exempt! This has to be so to ensure there are standards in workmanship when you are doing it for money for other people.


Ok, so please get writing or typing folks, we may not succeed, but we'll never know unless we have a go, a good idea is to also ring your local MP a week later if they have not replied, just a courtesy call to ensure they got your letter/email and that wasn't eaten up by anti-spam measure, remember, the wheels of politics move slowly, so don't delay.

The more people who do this, the far better chance we have of getting this silly law changed, so spread the word

Edited: If you would like to cast a vote on how you make them, please see http://polls.ausics.net
(completely anonymous voting - which is why I did not use phpBB's voting which isn't so anonymous and it means you don't have to register here just to cast a vote).

Some reading for those interested (or who have the time)

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aca_home/registers/cabling_licences/cprs2000.pdf
http://www.commsalliance.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/2420/S008_2006r.pdf
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1897


- I would like to thank the ACMA for providing detailed information on the DDE and substantial amount of other information with relation to the Telecommunications Act 1997 and the CPR 2000.

[Zak]

Edited to clean up the language, sorry about that.

Incredible.
I too thought this was a current exemption still, to think of all the cables everyone has made in the past 9 years, all non compliant. Writing my letter to the minister in 5 minutes.

I wonder if they have successfully prosecuted anyone for this.

[andrewoak]

As a cabler i barely make "patch" cables and when I do I try to make only 1 -2 for a "specifc reason".. other wise buying them in for a client works out to be a better use of my time. also as bigger compaines/ goverment agencies go don't you guys have IT department budgets and such that a purchase from a supplier of these would be more logical ??


also as for climbing up on ladders, and having all the other correct tools to do an install why does a sysadmin need to have them ???

surely you can see the logic behind hiring a person/s in for a job with all their tools and knowledge to do the job propperly.. i do admit there are some cowboys in our industry who still have no idea about things, but they are slowly being weeded out.


well looks liek the OP was post awhile ago and nothing has chnaged.... go CPR go...

[Zak]

As a cabler i barely make "patch" cables and when I do I try to make only 1 -2 for a "specifc reason".. other wise buying them in for a client works out to be a better use of my time. also as bigger compaines/ goverment agencies go don't you guys have IT department budgets and such that a purchase from a supplier of these would be more logical ??


also as for climbing up on ladders, and having all the other correct tools to do an install why does a sysadmin need to have them ???

surely you can see the logic behind hiring a person/s in for a job with all their tools and knowledge to do the job propperly.. i do admit there are some cowboys in our industry who still have no idea about things, but they are slowly being weeded out.


well looks liek the OP was post awhile ago and nothing has chnaged.... go CPR go...

Our IT budget allows for buying things in bulk, like .27cents each for RJ45's, $122.00 for govt spec'd 305m of cat5e, that way we can make patch leads to go from krone panels to switches 15 cm away and don't have to buy 50cm leads at 3 times what it costs us to make them. We have one licenced cabler in our IT department, he deals with the fibre and phones, and of course we don't touch that side of things, but he as a senior staffer has better things to do then make pissy little cat5 patch leads, something that any teenager can make, I have made hundreds of these of the past 5 years, all just as good as any sold in some store.

The fact we can make these if we don't use them on a network that connects to a telecoms network shows how $#$#$# this law is, and like the OP says, how contradictory it really is. I not being totally satisfied with everything you can read on the internet, contacted the ACMA last week myself, and they indeed backed up everything the OP said. I can wire up a 50 storey building with cat5/6 legally if I want, so long as no part of that network connects to a telecommunications network, so tools and whatever don't come into it, else the CPR would be a overwhelming blanket rule, which it is not.

I myself agree with the OP, I even go as far as agree with him that if i was to run a business going around installing cables for other people such as sparkies and the likes of you do, then I guess I should have some qualifications, but if I want to make them in the line of my normal work for my boss, then I should be able to make them, and I do, regardless of what this #$#$# up law says, ad if you view on the poll link in the OP post, you'll see in last week about 2000 other people feel the same way.

I'm only 24yo, but if the OP was correct in so far as it was legal to do for 11 years prior, then I too see no reason why it can't be so again.

And Ladders? who says anything about ladders, sysadmins don't / shouldn't need them, apart from 3 ft things to reach the top of a 42ru rack without lifting above shoulders with 35KG servers that even 6'1 guys like me need so as to not upset OH&S laws.. sigh..

[Zak]

well looks liek the OP was post awhile ago and nothing has chnaged.... go CPR go...

It was only one week ago the OP posted this thread, nothing changes that fast, it takes the ministers office that long to get around to receiving the faxes letalone reading them and thinking/investigating, if it was to change, I wouldn't see it happening this year at all, not the way governments work.

Brian, our cabler I mentioned on the weekend, thinks its stupid as well, he did mention that he wasn't sure if the exemption should really apply if installing cables in walls, due to the requirements of cable and connector separations with mains supply, but again as he laughed, you can flout those if you don't interact with the telecommunications network, so *he shrugs his shoulders* and quote "it's all a load of BS, completely pointless since they never mandated it incorporating all cabling work".

But I guess Brian can have that point of view as his direct livelyhood doesn't involve going around and installing cables for others such as yours apparently does, I guess they obviously pay him well here..

Editing-
(as Brian leans over my shoulder he asks me to add "I only got licenced to deal with the phone stuff, if I was just doing ethernet no way I'd waste my f###ing time getting licenced").

[Noel]

Our IT budget allows for buying things in bulk, like .27cents each for RJ45's, $122.00 for govt spec'd 305m of cat5e, that way we can make patch leads to go from krone panels to switches 15 cm away and don't have to buy 50cm leads at 3 times what

Excellent point, the smallest cables I've seen are 50cm and cost $1.50, which is likely far cheaper than any licenced cabler would sell to me for anyway.

For a 20cm patch lead, we pay 33c per 8p8c, and $180 per box cat5e, so thats about 10c in cable, 66c in connectors, and about 2 minutes of time, as against $1.50 plus spending time to somehow hide and keep a clean tidy appearance of an unnecessary extra 30cm of cable... I know which one I prefer

BTW care to send me a pvt msg and tell me where you get your stuff from ? nice prices.

[Noel]

As a cabler i barely make "patch" cables and when I do I try to make only 1 -2 for a "specifc reason".. other wise buying them in for a client works out to be a better use of my time. also as bigger compaines/ goverment agencies go don't you guys have IT department budgets and such that a purchase from a supplier of these would be more logical ??


also as for climbing up on ladders, and having all the other correct tools to do an install why does a sysadmin need to have them ???

surely you can see the logic behind hiring a person/s in for a job with all their tools and knowledge to do the job propperly.. i do admit there are some cowboys in our industry who still have no idea about things, but they are slowly being weeded out.


well looks liek the OP was post awhile ago and nothing has chnaged.... go CPR go...

The rules are flawed, not only for other reasons I outlined, but even if I was to go for a licence, to enable me to do my job legally, guess what, I can't get it, why, because I need to do hundreds of hours of experience under the watchful eye and guidance of a licenced cabler, what bullshit, so its stacked against us from the get go.

Sure I have done cables for 15 years, but because X number must have been within recent time frame, I have to admit to committing a crime to become legal, that just backs up how screwed up your beloved CPR is, and until they are repealed, they will be violated and continue to be violated by tens of thousands of people every week, if not every day.

[Noel]

I must admit having been away for several days, I am very surprised at the high number of polls I seriously thought we'd have at least 20% licenced cablers, but it appears the percentage is so low it's hard to measure

I am also totally impressed by the high number of people who indicate they are writing to the minister asking to bring back the DDE, even if only 10% of them actually do it, that will certainly get noticed. There is a lot more I never put into my original post outlining why I feel we need it back, and if anyone else thinks of other reasons ( like to required hours experience to get licence in our profession) even my local member was amazed, he sought clarification from the ACMA an got told the same thing they told me, and he is interested in taking it up personally with the minister when he's next back down in Canberra, so thats an awesome start.

[Zak]

I must admit having been away for several days, I am very surprised at the high number of polls I seriously thought we'd have at least 20% licenced cablers, but it appears the percentage is so low it's hard to measure

I am also totally impressed by the high number of people who indicate they are writing to the minister asking to bring back the DDE, even if only 10% of them actually do it, that will certainly get noticed. There is a lot more I never put into my original post outlining why I feel we need it back, and if anyone else thinks of other reasons ( like to required hours experience to get licence in our profession) even my local member was amazed, he sought clarification from the ACMA an got told the same thing they told me, and he is interested in taking it up personally with the minister when he's next back down in Canberra, so thats an awesome start.

Noel, have you heard anything from the government on this?
I know the wheels of power move slowly, just curious if they have responded further.

[Noel]

I must admit having been away for several days, I am very surprised at the high number of polls I seriously thought we'd have at least 20% licenced cablers, but it appears the percentage is so low it's hard to measure

I am also totally impressed by the high number of people who indicate they are writing to the minister asking to bring back the DDE, even if only 10% of them actually do it, that will certainly get noticed. There is a lot more I never put into my original post outlining why I feel we need it back, and if anyone else thinks of other reasons ( like to required hours experience to get licence in our profession) even my local member was amazed, he sought clarification from the ACMA an got told the same thing they told me, and he is interested in taking it up personally with the minister when he's next back down in Canberra, so thats an awesome start.

Noel, have you heard anything from the government on this?
I know the wheels of power move slowly, just curious if they have responded further.

Things do move slow, however I do have further contact with the ministers office in January

[Noel]

Update

Recently I was in contact with my new Federal MP, I have received notification that he has asked the Minister on my (and therefor, your) behalf, to investigate and consider a reintroduction of the DDE.

So, the wheels in motion have moved a little further thanks to my new Federal MP.

(New Fed MP because as most know I have moved to the North Coast region)

[andrewoak]

The rules are flawed, not only for other reasons I outlined, but even if I was to go for a licence, to enable me to do my job legally, guess what, I can't get it, why, because I need to do hundreds of hours of experience under the watchful eye and guidance of a licenced cabler, what bullshit, so its stacked against us from the get go.

Sure I have done cables for 15 years, but because X number must have been within recent time frame, I have to admit to committing a crime to become legal, that just backs up how screwed up your beloved CPR is, and until they are repealed, they will be violated and continue to be violated by tens of thousands of people every week, if not every day.

wow so you have wasted all this time just cause you hate the "man and his rules"

surely you could have applied for RPL (Recognised for Prior Learning) for all this Knoweldge and experince... most Tafe courses offer this and do the "5" day courses

I used to think this way but when i did my Tafe course i got RPL for 5 of the course subjects.

do you really want to end up with the situation in other coutries where it is an absolute mess.. under the current rules it is clear who is responsible for each part of the network so when something goes wrong it is clear who needs to be contacted on how to fix it. You start chucking in the DIY crowd and it will go to crap very quickly.

as for apporaching a minister good luck as itis a protected industry mainly due to telsra/ telecomm

[Noel]

The rules are flawed, not only for other reasons I outlined, but even if I was to go for a licence, to enable me to do my job legally, guess what, I can't get it, why, because I need to do hundreds of hours of experience under the watchful eye and guidance of a licenced cabler, what bullshit, so its stacked against us from the get go.

Sure I have done cables for 15 years, but because X number must have been within recent time frame, I have to admit to committing a crime to become legal, that just backs up how screwed up your beloved CPR is, and until they are repealed, they will be violated and continue to be violated by tens of thousands of people every week, if not every day.

wow so you have wasted all this time just cause you hate the "man and his rules"

surely you could have applied for RPL (Recognised for Prior Learning) for all this Knoweldge and experince... most Tafe courses offer this and do the "5" day courses

I used to think this way but when i did my Tafe course i got RPL for 5 of the course subjects.

do you really want to end up with the situation in other coutries where it is an absolute mess.. under the current rules it is clear who is responsible for each part of the network so when something goes wrong it is clear who needs to be contacted on how to fix it. You start chucking in the DIY crowd and it will go to crap very quickly.

as for apporaching a minister good luck as itis a protected industry mainly due to telsra/ telecomm

Who's said I've wasted it?
Err, hate to burst your bubble but, nothing collapsed or burnt to the ground because of ethernet cabling during the very long time the DDE was in effect, think about it, a new building in town gets built prior to 2000, probably cabled by sparkies, non eof them were required to be licenced, or ever trained on ethernet cable, but yet they are all legal.

It legal to do this now so long as no part of it accesses any part of the telecomms network, so its good enough for 5000 pc intranet for a large multi national company, but not good enough to even plug a dsl cable into... doesnt make sense.

It is a nanny state rule brought in by howard at teh behest of your industry, where does it end, do i need to have licenced cabler come and plug in a lead from my TV to DVD recorder? Well, no, not yet anyway.

ohhhhhhhh thats another thing, a TV antennae installer doesnt have to be licenced, but yet they can run cables through walls and roofs and what not, so please dont try give us the " OH&S" aspect BS

Infact a telstra exchange tech thinks its funny, he said " he's never heard of any equipment having problems because someones ethernet, i recall him saying "it wont happen, even if they use PoE and fuck it up, the worst they will do is fry some modem components"

My yanky mates laugh at us with our over regulated nanny state lawmakers,
I know this regulation suits you because of your industry, so I dont expect you to see it in an unbiased view